Give west bank & gaza full independence but don't be surprised when they initiate war again in 10 years and then cry victim when they lose after a day - their entire tactic is to provoke Israel into a war that looks good for pr and then maximize civilian casualties.
I support Israel, but I don't condemn Palestine, because why killing people?
@Noflaps You fail to mention that Germany also indiscriminately bombed many cities in England and the civilian casualties that inflicted. It was called The Blitz.. I suggest you look it up. The bombing of Dresden was entirely justified although the cancerous woke wrist wringing dogooders would today have us sit and do nothing.
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From the river to the sea? Is this a genocidal call to destroy Isreal and the Jews or just a jolly song for a day trip to the beach.
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From the river to the sea? Is this a genocidal call to destroy Isreal and the Jews or just a jolly song for a day trip to the beach.
@BorisOspasky said in #33:
> @Noflaps You fail to mention that Germany also indiscriminately bombed many cities in England and the civilian casualties that inflicted. It was called The Blitz.. I suggest you look it up. The bombing of Dresden was entirely justified although the cancerous woke wrist wringing dogooders would today have us sit and do nothing.
So you're saying those people should've died?
> @Noflaps You fail to mention that Germany also indiscriminately bombed many cities in England and the civilian casualties that inflicted. It was called The Blitz.. I suggest you look it up. The bombing of Dresden was entirely justified although the cancerous woke wrist wringing dogooders would today have us sit and do nothing.
So you're saying those people should've died?
Do we agree that there was a right to resist German occupying forces in Europe 1939-1945?
Do we agree that the "Resistance" in occupied countries was a "good" thing in Europe in 1939-1945?
@Noflaps said in #25:
> Poland. One day, in September of 1939, the Nazis crossed into it and started killing Poles.
>
> Should the West have decided to kill only a few Nazis, to teach them a lesson, and then let Hitler remain in power?
>
> Or should the West have continued to fight until Hitler was out of power? Even though it meant, inevitably, some civilian casualties, since Nazis were also in cities. Around civilians. And yet the Nazis fought to stay in power.
>
> The answer seems self-evident to me. But perhaps not everybody would agree. And I could be wrong. However, it would take a cogent argument to convince me. But I am open to hearing one.
>
> In any event, I'm glad Germany has changed and is no longer ruled by Hitler. That doesn't mean I am not very sad for the former inhabitants of the City of Dresden, which was essentially destroyed. But putting Hitler into power was a bad decision, and there were only so many practical responses to it -- none of them anything but ugly.
>
> I hope humane and practical solutions can be found in Gaza and Ukraine which let all people live in peace. We're all tired of behavior that seems more like the twentieth century than the twenty-first.
Do we agree that the "Resistance" in occupied countries was a "good" thing in Europe in 1939-1945?
@Noflaps said in #25:
> Poland. One day, in September of 1939, the Nazis crossed into it and started killing Poles.
>
> Should the West have decided to kill only a few Nazis, to teach them a lesson, and then let Hitler remain in power?
>
> Or should the West have continued to fight until Hitler was out of power? Even though it meant, inevitably, some civilian casualties, since Nazis were also in cities. Around civilians. And yet the Nazis fought to stay in power.
>
> The answer seems self-evident to me. But perhaps not everybody would agree. And I could be wrong. However, it would take a cogent argument to convince me. But I am open to hearing one.
>
> In any event, I'm glad Germany has changed and is no longer ruled by Hitler. That doesn't mean I am not very sad for the former inhabitants of the City of Dresden, which was essentially destroyed. But putting Hitler into power was a bad decision, and there were only so many practical responses to it -- none of them anything but ugly.
>
> I hope humane and practical solutions can be found in Gaza and Ukraine which let all people live in peace. We're all tired of behavior that seems more like the twentieth century than the twenty-first.
@LordSupremeChess You show your immaturity with your comments. So you think it was OK for Germany to bomb our cities and expect there to be no retaliatory action? In the 1940s there was no precision bombing. Carpet bombing was the only way. Then there’s our (collective) bomber crews who flew with massive losses. Look, you’re a kid, you know nothing about WW2 or much else to be honest and think some throw away comment scores a goody point.
For some homework read about it, the evacuees, the damage and destruction inflicted on our country. My mum used to hide from the bombs.. how she’d hear the noise of the V1s.. and the engine stopping which signalled a missile about to drop God knows where. For some follow up studies, read about the Battle of Britain and the heroic pilots who shot the invading German bombers from the skies that ultimately saved us from many many more deaths.
For some homework read about it, the evacuees, the damage and destruction inflicted on our country. My mum used to hide from the bombs.. how she’d hear the noise of the V1s.. and the engine stopping which signalled a missile about to drop God knows where. For some follow up studies, read about the Battle of Britain and the heroic pilots who shot the invading German bombers from the skies that ultimately saved us from many many more deaths.
@LordSupremeChess said in #19:
> I'm not blaming either side, instead, I'm blaming fate and a lack of brain cells.
Uhh, I don ́t think its a lack of brain cells. It ́s a difference in perspective.
Abraham is the father of two children, Isaac and Ishmael
Ishmael was born out of wedlock, but he was the first child. Meanwhile, Isaac was born in wedlock, but was the second child.
God promised Abraham the land of Canaan, (includes Israel), which he promised to his FIRSTBORN son. Canaan was given to Isaac, a figure of Judaism and Christianity, instead of Ishmael who is a figure of Islam. This is the root of the conflict, the religious root to be exact.
> I'm not blaming either side, instead, I'm blaming fate and a lack of brain cells.
Uhh, I don ́t think its a lack of brain cells. It ́s a difference in perspective.
Abraham is the father of two children, Isaac and Ishmael
Ishmael was born out of wedlock, but he was the first child. Meanwhile, Isaac was born in wedlock, but was the second child.
God promised Abraham the land of Canaan, (includes Israel), which he promised to his FIRSTBORN son. Canaan was given to Isaac, a figure of Judaism and Christianity, instead of Ishmael who is a figure of Islam. This is the root of the conflict, the religious root to be exact.
@BorisOspasky, you really think I have to "look up" the Blitz? Seriously? Please notice that in my post I knew when Poland was invaded. September 1, 1939. I didn't have to look it up.
That suggests I actually know a bit of history. As befits a playuh of my somewhat advanced age.
I'm not sure you grasped my intention: I was not saying that the Allies should not have bombed. To the contrary. I'm well aware of what the Nazis did to London, Coventry, and so forth. Not just with their Dorniers and Heinkels, but even with V-1s and V-2s. (By the way, the notion that Churchill let Coventry be bombed to hide from the Nazis the fact that England had penetrated German encryption is almost certainly incorrect. You'd be shocked at how much of the history I've studied).
But the fact that I understand why the Allies bombed does not mean I do not feel sympathy toward the families burned alive. That doesn't make me soft or "Woke." It makes me human. We don't have to pretend to ourselves that war isn't cruel in order to wage it. And we don't have to delight in, or even be indifferent to, the cruelty.
Sometimes a horse has to be "put down." The vet and the horse owner know it. And it gets done. Does that mean they can't feel sorrow for being forced to do it? Hardly.
Israel didn't ask to have its civilians murdered and tortured. And they obviously had to respond. That doesn't mean that we can't feel sorrow for any noncombatants that end up in harm's way during that necessary response.
That suggests I actually know a bit of history. As befits a playuh of my somewhat advanced age.
I'm not sure you grasped my intention: I was not saying that the Allies should not have bombed. To the contrary. I'm well aware of what the Nazis did to London, Coventry, and so forth. Not just with their Dorniers and Heinkels, but even with V-1s and V-2s. (By the way, the notion that Churchill let Coventry be bombed to hide from the Nazis the fact that England had penetrated German encryption is almost certainly incorrect. You'd be shocked at how much of the history I've studied).
But the fact that I understand why the Allies bombed does not mean I do not feel sympathy toward the families burned alive. That doesn't make me soft or "Woke." It makes me human. We don't have to pretend to ourselves that war isn't cruel in order to wage it. And we don't have to delight in, or even be indifferent to, the cruelty.
Sometimes a horse has to be "put down." The vet and the horse owner know it. And it gets done. Does that mean they can't feel sorrow for being forced to do it? Hardly.
Israel didn't ask to have its civilians murdered and tortured. And they obviously had to respond. That doesn't mean that we can't feel sorrow for any noncombatants that end up in harm's way during that necessary response.
@Gonzalo2568 said in #32:
> I support Israel, but I don't condemn Palestine, because why killing people?
War = killing people. No war = no people dying.
> I support Israel, but I don't condemn Palestine, because why killing people?
War = killing people. No war = no people dying.
@Gonzalo2568 said in #1:
> I support Israel because I believe if you bless Israel God bless you.
I wasn't aware that we are all trying to bribe God here ;)
@JASKIRATSINGH said in #2:
> edit : you mean...
> I support Israel because I believe if you bless Israel USA bless you.
I live in the USA and no one's going to bless you whether you support Israel or Palestine. They don't really care :)
> I support Israel because I believe if you bless Israel God bless you.
I wasn't aware that we are all trying to bribe God here ;)
@JASKIRATSINGH said in #2:
> edit : you mean...
> I support Israel because I believe if you bless Israel USA bless you.
I live in the USA and no one's going to bless you whether you support Israel or Palestine. They don't really care :)
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